Technology is changing rapidly and bringing capabilities we haven’t seen before – at costs we haven’t seen before, either. Topcon Positioning Systems’ MC-Mobile, which first launched last year, is a three-in-one single-operator solution that allows a user to measure, design, and build from one portable system.
But the most appealing part of the MC-Mobile package for many in the industry may be its affordable price point and intuitive controls. Matt Kohler, vice president of strategic initiatives Americas/Oceania at Topcon, told The Dirt’s Bryan Furnace that due to its compact design, MC-Mobile only costs half as much as a traditional system. Effectively, on the right job, the system could pay for itself in just one project.
Kohler also points out that the software should be extremely intuitive for anyone who’s used Topcon before: “They’re going to be up and running in 10 to 15 minutes.” Even someone who doesn’t have experience with 3D positioning software should be able to produce with MC-Mobile within two to three hours, Kohler estimates.
Want to know more? You can demo the software for yourself at this year’s ConExpo-Con/Agg in Las Vegas, Nevada at Topcon’s booth in the West Hall, W43445.
For more information on where to find Topcon at ConExpo—as well as an in-depth discussion of what MC-Mobile can do for you—check out Bryan’s full interview with Kohler.
Equipment World serves up weekly videos on the latest in construction equipment, work trucks and pickup trucks – everything contractors need to get their work done. Subscribe and visit us at equipmentworld.com!
Transcript
Bryan Furnace:
Hi, everyone. I'm Bryan with Equipment World and today we're here to talk about technology in the construction industry. As the old trope goes, the times they are changing and it's an exciting time for our field. Things are changing so rapidly on the technology level and it's bringing us capabilities we've never seen before at a cost that we haven't seen before, and that's the most exciting aspect. But here to talk about it as an expert in the field is Matt Kohler with Topcon. He's going to give us a quick rundown as to some of their new technology and some of the applications you can use it on.
One of my first questions for you is we used to have two very distinct markets. We had the compact market and we had the full size market, but especially as machines like the CASE Minotaur have come out in John Deere and Takeuchi with their larger machines, the lines are beginning to blur between compact equipment and full size equipment. What have you guys seen trend-wise on the use of this equipment and the capabilities of these machines?
Matt Kohler:
Well, first off I would say it's the OEM acceptance in this segment. We're starting to see features in the compact machines that were usually reserved for full size machines. For example, if you look at several mini excavators, those machines, is you might see limits for height or for depth, safety things. You might have some power lines up overhead or a gas line down below so the operator can operate freely with that. Some of those are features now within the compact machines and the other thing is you might see swing limits, safety features like that or simple things for depth. Some manufacturers allow you to do some simple depth things.
Then for the CTL thing, since you were addressing that, you're starting to see features to where they're more accepting of technology. They might have all the sensors already on there, the IMUs where they want your software and then your positioning device on there to integrate into what their system already is. More OEM acceptance right out of the gate. There's several other features that we're seeing, but ...
Bryan Furnace:
As the machines are becoming more capable, can you expound just a little bit on what sort of technologies are elevating these machines even further that you've seen?
Matt Kohler:
Well, any positioning technology is going to elevate the machine substantially. If you just take a simple laser system, 2D laser system and we automate a CTL, you're going to see a 20 to 30% increase in finished production on these. If you put 3D positioning on it, you're going to see 30 to 50% very conservatively. With 3D positioning, you're not only getting position, you're getting a design, you're getting elevation and all the job details there. Just by putting various positioning technologies on, you're going to increase the production to those machines substantially.
Bryan Furnace:
Getting into Topcon specific products, can you tell me a bit about MC-Mobile and just how it differentiates from some of Topcon's other grade control systems that people are probably used to?
Matt Kohler:
Think of MC-Mobile as a three in one single operator solution. Our tagline is measure, design and build. The idea is for an operator to be able to show up on a job site to perform his layout, and then if he needs to create a simple design, say a poly line if he's digging a trench or do a flat pad's slope pad, anything like that, he can design it on the tablet and then that same tablet you're using for the layout, you can actually transfer to the machine, use it with a CTL or a mini ex or whatever you're using there. How it differs from our traditional technology is MC-Mobile at heart is an indicate system, but having said that, we do automate certain attachments perfect.
Bryan Furnace:
Oh, perfect.
Matt Kohler:
We can automate box blades, grader blades, stuff like that. We don't automate the machine. Our Max product line is we're automating a dozer or grader, certain excavators, things of that nature. The other thing is when you think about the layout, you're not going to be taking that GPS antenna off of your dozer and using it with your rod band, where MC-Mobile is meant to be modular, meant to be moved around with that, and most of that stuff is dedicated to the task at hand.
Bryan Furnace:
Interesting. Initially at first glance, that sounds like you're talking about a substantial savings over a traditional system. When can contractors kind of see a return on investment on something like this?
Matt Kohler:
In terms of the cost of MC-Mobile, if we compare it against a traditional system with the Basin Rover, stuff like that, you're going to price out about half the cost. It's a system that's designed for the compact segment. For return on investment, that's a tough question to answer because it's dictated by applications and what the contractor's doing, as you know. So if you're using a mini ex and you're placing large rock for a retaining wall, your payback is a little different than somebody that might be grading a flat pad that's paying for concrete. But needless to say, the system could pay for itself in as little as one project or a couple projects, but you're going to see a pretty quick payback when you use this technology.
Bryan Furnace:
As a contractor, that's immediately where I start going down is if you get on the right project, you could absolutely pay for a system like that in one project, no problem.
Matt Kohler:
100% absolutely dictates what you're going to get and what your payback is. It's the operators, it's the applications, it's the materials, all of those things come into play.
Bryan Furnace:
Now as a contractor, another question that my mind kind of goes down is do you have the ability to move this system between machines? Is there some interconnectivity there? How does that work?
Matt Kohler:
The whole idea is it's a modular system in that you can do layout tasks with it, you can do design, you can actually put the components on the machine. You can move some components. You could take your GNSS antenna and take that and move that from CTL to CTL or attachment to attachment or CTL to mini excavator. Same thing with the prism. So we can work with a robotic total station or our 3D laser, the LN150. Those parts are modular, the parts that aren't meant to be moved or you're hardwired things, your IMUs. In theory, you could move them, but it's not real practical because you have calibration and measurement and things of that nature.
Bryan Furnace:
What are some of the advantages? I mean, we've covered quite a few actually, but any additional advantages that you-
Matt Kohler:
Lots of advantages besides being a three in one solution and being able to do that. You have the flexibility with MC-Mobile, you can do 2D. If you want to interface with the laser, all of that's available. You just have to put a Topcon laser receiver on there and plug it in. You can go to work, you can run with GNSS, a GPS 3D solution. We can interface with a robotic total station. We can interface with our 3D laser. If you think about various environments where you might be working indoors, outdoors or something like that, it has full flexibility to do all of that. Too many things probably to list for the advantages.
Bryan Furnace:
I will say with the newer systems especially, one thing that continues to stand out with you guys is the flexibility and the versatility that is all kind of wrapped up in one package versus when I started back in the industry, you had one package and it did one thing.
Matt Kohler:
It's capable of accepting entire designs, so if you're a contractor that does full designs and want to send it out, it can absolutely work in that environment. It's meant to be as simple as possible and user friendly as possible, but it can also work with the most advanced users.
Bryan Furnace:
Now here's the real question. Knowing the individuals that tend to come into the dirt industry, what kind of learning curve do you have with this software?
Matt Kohler:
I guess we can have a couple of camps. We have the existing Topcon users that we think are going to be very accepting of this, and they're going to be up and running in 10 to 15 minutes as long as they know how to run those machines. The look feel everything is the same, so they're going to be good to go. If we're training somebody that doesn't have experience with 3D positioning, you're probably looking at two to three hours. What we typically like to do, or what our dealers like to do is to go out and get you productive right out of the gate. We might go out and say, "Here's how you set up the LN-150 3D laser. Okay, now let's create a simple design. Now let's go and let's just start interfacing with the technology." Once you're using it, then you start learning on a regular basis and you're going to find out, "Gosh, I can do so much more with this."
To help with the learning curve, besides having somebody on site with you for the first day or a resource available for you, My Topcon has a website or My Topcon Now app, and we have a series of e-learning modules in there, and the e-learning is specific to our pocket 3D, our MC-Mobile. Besides having a learning track for where you can figure out how to use the equipment, you can also create a library and download short videos. How do I Bluetooth connect to my controller? How do I set up an LN-150 and they're just 30 second to a minute long videos. You could create a library. To use my Topcon, now all you got to do is create an account. It's absolutely free.
The other thing that's interesting is users like yourself or for dealers doing is they're going out and doing YouTube videos. If you've ever fixed a headlight on a pickup truck or something, you want to know exactly how to do it without tearing something apart, there's an organic thing going on right now with that. You're going to see a lot of resources available for training and learning this product.
Bryan Furnace:
Shifting gears just a little bit, what other technologies does Topcon offer for the compact equipment market?
Matt Kohler:
We just released a product called 2D-MC and sort of to describe 2D-MC is it's a simple Android app. That's all 2D-MC is. It's an app that we download onto our wireless tablet that we used for MC-Mobile. 2D-MC was really designed around the compact segment, and the whole intent was to be able to automate box blades and grader blades for those applications, those ends to edges machines, but it can do many other things. The nice thing about the 2D-MC app is it utilizes all the same hardware as MC-Mobile, so it's completely upgradeable, but 2D-MC can also be used for other machine types. If you want to take it and run it and indicate on a dozer, on a scraper, on a Gannon Box, something like that, you can use it. It's a very flexible, easy user friendly solution.
I know a lot of people like to stress easy and user friendly, but when you actually took a look at the interface, you would see, "Am I high, am I low? Am I on grade? What do I want on grade to be? I can set particular deadband, so I don't need that quarter of an inch accuracy. I want it to be a little wider." You can determine that stuff. It's a really nice, easy to use product that we believe is priced right as well.
Bryan Furnace:
Just to make sure I'm understanding it correctly, 2D-MC is actually a software application upgrade, if you will, to your existing hardware?
Matt Kohler:
100%. 2D-MC is just an Android app, but then it utilizes the hardware and think of it as a laser based system from there. But in terms of Topcon's definition, 2D-MC is just an app that a contractor can download to their CT8X2 which is our tablet for now.
Bryan Furnace:
Interesting. What kind of applications are you guys using this in?
Matt Kohler:
Well, I think about the box blade and the grader blades for what somebody might want to run with and I think about doing sports fields.
Bryan Furnace:
That's a great application for these things.
Matt Kohler:
Somebody might be grading sidewalks. It's a compact machine, it's the right width. These Amazon warehouses, Walmart warehouses, grading off a pad, something like that to where you want to leave the dirt a little high instead of using more concrete. Anything that's requiring that. But keep in mind, you're working with a laser, so you're going to be doing a flat, a single slope or a dual slope with that. So any of those applications.
Bryan Furnace:
What are some of the limitations? You kind of mentioned one there with only two planes of grading there. Are there additional limitations?
Matt Kohler:
Well, yeah. I mean, the first thing is a lot of us live in a 3D world, you're used to loading a design so you're used to getting your cut and fill information anywhere you go. When we think about lasers, lasers are fantastic because if you have the application, that's all you need. If you need to do flat single slope or dual slope, that's what you need. But when you go into an application with a compound slope, a track at a high school, you might be grading. As soon as you go into the curve of that track, that slope is always changing. You're going to be limited by what you can do with that and then you're going to pull out the old string line and go back to traditional methods unless you use the 3D.
Bryan Furnace:
Back to the old school ways.
Matt Kohler:
Back to the old ways. That's exactly right.
Bryan Furnace:
What are some of the advantages of that system over some of the other technology solutions out there?
Matt Kohler:
The beauty is the flexibility. Everything is completely upgradeable within the Topcon ecosystem. You could take that same hardware, those IMUs and upgrade it to MC-Mobile. There is no dead end solution. One of the things we've always prided ourselves on is having something that's backward compatible. You can use those same sensors we're using now for a grader that we came out with in 1980.
Bryan Furnace:
Well, my final question for you is where can contractors go to learn more information about this, possibly look at one to demo, kind of have that conversation?
Matt Kohler:
Well, the best resource is to contact one of our dealers, and if you don't know who your dealer is, you can go to topconpositioning.com. In the upper right-hand corner I believe of the website, it's find a dealer, anywhere in the world. You just put where you are and they're going to find you a Topcon machine control dealer. That's what you're going to do to look for. We're going to be at CONEXPO as well. We're going to have a mini excavator there, CTL there, full systems available. Our technical sales experts are going to be there. We're going to be in booth West Hall, W43445.
The other thing is we're putting on some educational sessions. On Friday, March 17th and the West Hall, room 206. We're going to have a session from 1:00 to 2:00 PM and then if any contractors are out there that are watching this that might happen to be doing paving, we've got a paving seminar there titled Asphalt Paving Technologies Moving Operations into the Future, and that is Wednesday, March 15th, West Hall, room 213 to 215. I think that's taken up three rooms so that's going to be a pretty big, big session
Bryan Furnace:
Sounds like you guys are going to be busy, but it sounds like tremendous resources for guys in the field.
Matt Kohler:
We are so looking forward to CONEXPO and getting this out and hearing what the contractors have to say, and we are so excited for MC-Mobile to be out to the market.
Bryan Furnace:
Awesome stuff. Well, Matt, thank you again for the time. This has been great.
Matt Kohler:
Hey, Bryan, it's been great talking to you. Thank you for your time.
Bryan Furnace:
Well, thank you again for Matt and Topcon for taking time to come on the show today to discuss some of the new technologies that are being rolled out and some of the different applications you can use them in. It's unbelievable how quickly the game is changing and just what benefits that brings to us as contractors. As always, we hope this has been helpful. We look forward to seeing you guys at CONEXPO and stay tuned for a follow-up to this interview.