Beyond the Hype: The Reality of Autonomous Construction Equipment

Bryan Furnace (00:00):

Chevron Dello is announcing a break with convention, giving you even more reasons to choose Dello. Today we're here to talk about autonomous equipment, but not from the standpoint that we're going to see it on our job site tomorrow. More we're coming at it from the angle of as we develop autonomous equipment, what are some of the benefits we're going to see now? What are some of the changes to the job site that are being impacted by this research into a new area? Here to help us with this topic today is Cameron from Trimble, and he's going to break down kind of what we're going to see in the near future. The big topic of conversation in construction right now is kind of autonomous machines. Where are we at? What's coming down the pipeline? But obviously being on the front lines, we have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. As one of the guys that's kind of working on this technology, can you give us an idea of realistically, where are we in the autonomous space currently?

Cameron Clark (01:02):

Yeah, no, sure. No, it is a good question, right? Because autonomy is coming and hey, it's been coming for a long time and potentially you could argue that it's been here for over 20 years already, right? And there's so many different advancements with different autonomy and different levels of automation over the last 20 odd years. A lot of processes and workflows have changed in the industry, just even thinking about stakes and string lines. And when you go to 3D machine control, you don't need the stakes anymore. And hey, we can automate the blade. So a lot has changed. And then even expectations too, because if you could get a bulldozer, for example, 98% or more of [inaudible 00:01:44] control systems sold on a bulldozer is blade automated, for example. But I think there's been a little bit of a misconception and there's been a lots of hype around autonomy over the past few years.

(01:55):

And I think some people thought that with the advancements with manufacturing and even in the automotive space, that they could just sort of come straight over into construction. But construction as you know, it's very different. It's dynamic. And the way I look at it is like constructions like a team sport. You've got multiple players or machines working together. You've got to optimize how they work together. And they're actually changing the environment too. It's not like an autonomous vehicle or a robot doing something that's just going from A to B. A lot is different. I think with autonomy as well. For full autonomy, you can automate the asset or the machine to do a task, but it's really when you start looking at how can you optimize and automate the site and coordinate everything that's happening, both man and unmanned working together in harmony. For us that Trimble, autonomy is in our strategy and it's really the key part of it is the journey of how we get there knowing that, hey, we're not just going to wake up tomorrow and there's all this fully autonomous site. It's how we get there.

(03:01):

And there's a lot to do and a lot of learnings. But for us it's like the journey and what can we do with operator assistance and safety and really solve the construction dilemma of, hey, it's hard to get skilled workers, right? And what can we do now to add value along the way and build trust and learn? We don't also have to automate everything. You can pick and choose. So some things are very easier, I guess you could say, to look at the simple mundane tasks, repetitive things that you can start off and learn. And then for us, we want to be able to see what can we leverage across machines and across workflows. We've got a number of projects. One thing that's more visible to others is an autonomous compactor project we're working with Dynapac on, and even last year we had a successful test on a real job site in Canada, which was awesome. Right?

(03:52):

We had this top fully autonomous machine running alongside other compactors, building this dam, contributing to the data for it. So that was awesome of just being able to get in there and learn and make sure that what we're doing sort of flows in with people's workflows. We don't want to create solutions that completely change the way people have to work. And then I guess another one is we've got an autonomous excavator. Some may have seen it in dimensions that are off-site in 2022, and we've got another off-site this year in November, and we're looking forward to showcasing where we're going. But I guess back to my point before is we're all about what can we add now? So all of these projects we're looking at what can we put in our Earthworks products that we sell today to really help with operator assistance and safety on that journey. Right?

Bryan Furnace (04:40):

It's interesting. I realize this was a little further back in what you were saying, but it never occurred to me before that in any other kind of autonomous space, the ground is going to stay consistent. Once you've mapped it, it's not going to move and you can reference that spot, but we're actively changing. So you're almost having to remap behind the machine as you go because the ground is changing in real time. That's fascinating to think about.

Cameron Clark (05:07):

Yeah, it's totally because the other thing with that, right, you've got to not only map and understand it, but all the data, all the information that you do, you've just changed the ground. You've got to pass that up. So it's part of the intelligence about what you want other people to do.

Bryan Furnace (05:21):

Yeah.

Cameron Clark (05:24):

Because if you can't tie it back and have that loop back of data, then you're running off old information and you might not be doing it the most efficient way. So that is a key aspect of, it's like that team sport, right, is we've got to optimize and coordinate everything. It's not just running over something.

Bryan Furnace (05:40):

Boy, I already knew that creating autonomous equipment was difficult, but you just took it to a whole other level because yeah, it does occur to me, let's say we have two autonomous dozers working side by side with a pipe crew. If it's not constantly remapping the ground, that dozer might go to back up and back right into the pipe trench because in its mind, the pipe trench doesn't exist. So it's not just that dozer has to remap the ground that it's working on, but you're having to in real time communicate that to the cloud, if you will, or some higher power.

Cameron Clark (06:12):

Yeah.

Bryan Furnace (06:12):

And then that's having to distribute that information to all of the autonomous machines who are in real time communicating back. That's a real big deal.

Cameron Clark (06:22):

Yeah. Well, I think that's the future out of getting the most out of it where you're coordinating and you're doing it at the site level. There's so many examples just at the machine, right? You might have an excavator that's just got a trench or you've got one compactor working in the area. So there's still a lot of value for the purpose-built one machine asset type thing. But that's just this. That's like the tip of the iceberg of what the potential is, and you've got to have all that other stuff contributing to be able to do that.

Bryan Furnace (06:50):

Yeah, very interesting. I will say, I think with that explanation right there, you've taken a lot of the industry and I think I just heard a big collective sigh of relief that our jobs aren't going to disappear tomorrow from autonomous dozers and excavators running all over the job site.

Cameron Clark (07:07):

Not at all. Yeah, not at all. Rest easy everybody because it's here to help.

Bryan Furnace (07:15):

That being said, if we're not really anywhere close to fully autonomous equipment being on our job sites, it does occur to me that a lot of the advances in technology, as you guys are exploring that, there's fallout, almost like the military does all of this research. And then as civilians, we get to kind of reap the benefits. What are some of the benefits that we're reaping today and what are some of the things that we're kind of on the cusp of getting on the job site that have been some of the fallout items while you guys have done this autonomous research?

Cameron Clark (09:39):

Yeah, no, no, that's a great question, right, because full autonomy is a ways away, but like I said before, we're trying to focus on what we can bring now along the way. There's a lot of incremental updates and stuff providing real benefits specifically around the task automation piece. But even sort of stepping back, think about all the machines and the advancements that a dozer's had over the years. They're powerful. They're more greener, a lot more operator comfort. But if you can't automate, if you've got stakes in the ground and the operators in there, they're still estimating what happens between the two stakes. Automation can help tell you what to do between the stakes. And so that's just one simple example of 3D and automation as you not having to estimate and use your eyeball, so to speak. There's a lot of things out there that help with enabling lesser skilled workers to be more productive.

(10:34):

Yeah, there's traditional automatics where you can make the implement like the blade or the bucket beyond grade. We can also steer a machine. So on a bulldozer you might be automating the blade, and then we can also steer the machine, say it's the toe of a slope or a compactor that mostly the compactor operators, the lesser skilled person, the new person, and they don't want to create slices that aren't compacted. You compensate that with wide overlap. But we can steer a compactor, right? And you can hit that define overlap all day every day. And the safety piece as well is another key thing because having technology on your machine reduces the amount of people that have to work around the machine. There's also alerts and other areas to keep people out of certain places. And even just the awareness around your bucket. For example, we've got an upgrade in our Earthworks excavator where we've got a camera that sits on the cab, and not only does it give a mixed reality view so you can rotate around and see the model that you're building, but it also gives you an awareness around the bucket.

(11:41):

So you've probably seen a lot of times people in excavators are looking down in the trench. Some people don't even take off the hydraulics, right, and they're looking over. We can provide awareness around the bucket without having to do unsaved operation. I guess to your point about what's on the cusp, to me it's pretty exciting because let's say I can control the implement and I can steer a machine to align. What if we then change that line to be more intelligent? Because a lot of the technology today requires the skilled operator to know what to do, but you could be in a machine and flick it on autos and the blade could drop to grade. But if you don't know where to start, it's like, where do I start? How do I work? Where do I push the material? How do I work with the other operator?

(12:26):

If we know we can steer the machine and we can control the implement, what if I intelligently change the line at which it's following to make it work with other people? So that's the exciting part for me, is that it's just more information, more data to be more intelligent because the machines are going to be more ready to be automated, and it's just the value that we tell it to do. So again, it's a stepping stone to autonomy because autonomous machine, you think about it. It's got to know what to do and it's got to be safe. And why can't we help someone today that doesn't know what to do to do the job better and be safe? And then also, we don't want to just help the lesser skilled operators. We want to help the experts too, because if you are in a machine and you're an expert and you are always overriding it, you're going to think it's a piece of crap and you'll go now never buy one of those systems because I'm always overriding it.

(13:21):

But if you can put something in there to make them better and then they trust it, then over time the industry's going to change and they're going to start trusting it. And also we can learn at the same time. It's pretty exciting, this whole space. Pretty lucky to be part of it, to be honest.

Bryan Furnace (13:35):

Yeah. That's really fascinating, very interesting. But it does occur to me as you kind of walk through that being a YouTube content creator in the dirt space, I can tell you that it doesn't matter how accurate the computer is at being the most productive and the most efficient possible, any operator's going to get in that seat and tell you it's doing it totally wrong. And this is a piece of garbage. So unfortunately, we all have to contend with that element.

Cameron Clark (14:06):

Yeah, yeah.

Bryan Furnace (14:07):

That being said, a lot of the industry kind of has this knee-jerk reaction to technology. And primarily where we're at right now is all of this technology is still kind of new and therefore it's pretty expensive. And so the knee-jerk is I don't need that. Me and Graham Pappy have been grading out these parking lots for the last 80 years with no GPS technology. My question to you is why should you be an early adopter here? Why should you invest in the technology? What edge is that going to give you?

Cameron Clark (14:34):

Yeah, no, that's a great question because you hear it all the time, right? Of, "Hey, I've always done it this way. I don't need to change." But then you get to see some of those other people that your total advocate, that's all in. It's awesome to see them change. But for me, I always think about better, cheaper, faster. But before I sort of drill into that more, it's like the other thing that people need to know is, well, for me anyway, is that the benefits and value isn't just for the large contractor, it's for the small site contractor, it's for the owner operator. I always get frustrated when people talk and see and they think, "Oh, that doesn't apply to me because I'm a small guy. I know what I'm doing," et cetera. Or a small contractor. But yeah, better, cheaper, faster.

(15:16):

If you can do it in spec all the time at a high quality, if you can be consistent all the time with your operators, especially the lesser skilled operators, you're always doing a consistent job, you'll never get a new person to be as good as the expert, but you'll close the gap and then they'll be a lot more consistent.

(15:33):

It really gets into the cheaper aspect of less rework, less material, less fuel, which drives into you're getting things done faster because you're more productive. But also the other part is you're also reducing your downtime because you're not having to wait for surveyors to put stakes in or the idle time isn't there because you've got the information you need in the machine. And there's a human element as well, because it drives that it's less fatigue on the operators. You're a lot more happier when you go home. And then there's the safety benefits as well of being more alert and aware and not being as tired, but there's less people that have to be around the site for you. And then it's always interesting, everyone's talking about sustainability these days, which we all are, but sustainability is like a byproduct or a side effect of what we do, which is pretty neat, I guess sort of more tangible for people.

(16:25):

A lot of people can do more with less with technology. There's the examples that we've seen where on a bulldozer for example, you're not getting the performance out of it. And for finishing, you'd always have to run a blade across it like a motor grader. Or if you're an excavator doing slope work, especially on the side of a highway, that's got to look good, you'll run a dozer past it afterwards to clean it up. But you don't need to do that anymore with the performance you can get with technology on a dozer or the performance you can get with an excavator and automatics. You can do more with less. Even like the compact machines with the grading attachments, you can run simple lasers to full 3D and the performance is outstanding. And maybe you don't need a dozer anymore. You can do more with a smaller machine.

(17:09):

Another really cool example, which I'll highlight is we've got a new product called Site Works Machine Guidance, and it provides an option for a contractor if they're not really sure if they want to go into machine control or if they need surveying. It's a solution that you can use on the machine and off the machine. So if you're doing some grade stacking or setting out, you can do it in rover mode. And then if you need to dig it, you can put the receiver and the tablet in the machine and you're not having to get in and out of the machine to check grades. So there's a lot of stuff you can do more with less. And even thinking about this, examples of contractors that are trying to compete with people that have technology, because the people with technology, if you're better, cheaper, faster, your costs are down.

(17:54):

And it's very hard for someone to compete because their costs are down so they can have a lower bid price and maintain margin, whereas if you're not. The other part for the sticker shock is don't think that you have to go all into the best thing you can get like the full up premium 3D machine control for your machine. There's so many different tiers. We've even got a simple solution that you can put on a compact machine grading attachment that uses your phone for the interface that you can install that's very cheap, very easy to use. You can install it yourself. And then solutions in the more premium line that start with lasers. And then you can do stuff where you might say, "Oh, I don't have office software and I don't have designers," but you don't need all that stuff because there's stuff you can do with creating your own models in the machine.

(18:46):

So yeah, there's lots of tiers. And then the other aspect as well is that there are options out there. We've got a subscription service called Works Plus. It includes the software and the hardware. So you're coming down to an operating expense paid monthly to fit out multiple machines instead of having to worry about this big capital expense. I guess the key takeaway for me is there's lots of benefits and don't feel you've got to go right in. Figure out what's good for you, and then know that you can grow as your needs grow too.

Bryan Furnace (19:15):

It is interesting, I've referenced this several times now. I think when it comes to technology, we've kind of reached this critical point in our industry that's almost like the days when we switched over from cable-driven machines to hydraulic machines. Just in the standpoint if you think back to what that transition was like, I'm sure it was a bunch of super skeptical companies that the idea of running this machine filled with fluid, with hoses running everywhere, that's a way more complicated system. You got way more failure points, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then it turned into this thing where I'll never go to that fancy hydraulic stuff. I'm always going to run my cable-driven machines. And very quickly, everyone realized, you can't compete anymore. You're not competing at the same level with a hydraulic machine versus cable-driven. And I really feel like from a technology standpoint, we're kind of reaching that point to where if you don't have some sort of technology, whether it's 2D or 3D machine control, like you said, it doesn't necessarily have to be full-blown GPS.

(20:19):

Maybe it's an intelligent laser system or something. If you're not engaged in the tech world, you're very quickly becoming obsolete and yeah, you can go scrape the bottom of their barrel for those driveway grading jobs and for a lot of the small barns and stuff like that. But to really compete in the full-blown core of the industry, you're kind of quickly becoming a dinosaur and you're getting left behind.

Cameron Clark (20:45):

Yeah, I totally agree. And the other part as well is that think about the new workforce that's coming through, right? They've lived and breathed technology. They're not scared of it. They embrace it. So that's very encouraging. And construction doesn't have to be no technology because man, there's a lot of technology and there's a lot of innovation in construction.

Bryan Furnace (21:07):

Well, Cameron, thank you so much for all the information. This is fascinating. I do look forward to the day when we get to see an autonomous dozer just doing its thing, but at the same time, we're also grateful that that's a little ways off because I, as an operator still want to have a job at the end of the day. So thank you for all the information and thank you for the info on all of the machine control as well.

Cameron Clark (21:27):

Yeah, no, thanks for the opportunity to get out and have this candid conversation. It's been awesome. So yeah, thanks. Hope some people got something out of it.

Bryan Furnace (21:34):

Well, thank you again for Cameron taking the time to share with us today on just what's coming down the pipeline and what are some of the benefits that are here and tangible today that have come from this quest towards autonomous equipment. So as always, I hope this gives you just a little bit more help running your business. Maybe a little nugget of wisdom. Thanks for watching, and we'll catch you on the next episode of The Dirt.